Our Need To Manage Stress - Neil Shah, the Stress Management Society, UK
Stress and anxiety levels are incredibly high amongst the population of those with an epilepsy. Neil Shah of the Stress Management Society speaks of stress in today's society, the importance of recognising and addressing it, removing the guilt, shame, and stigma associated with it, and the power we have to limit it.
Reported by Torie Robinson | Edited and produced by Carrot Cruncher Media.
Podcast
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00:00 Neil Shah
Even with a random stranger say “Hey, how are you?”. Most pointless question, not just in the English language, in any language. Why?
00:09 Torie Robinson
It's a greeting, it's not a real question, right?
00:11 Neil Shah
Absolutely!
0:12 Welcome back to Epilepsy Sparks Insights.
This week we are going to talk about stress. It’s natural to have degrees of stress in our lives - I often think that there are fine lines between stress, anxiety, and excitement. But the problem is that stress and anxiety are huge seizure triggers for many with an epilepsy. Anxiety can lead directly to seizures or it can lead to lack of sleep which can trigger seizures, or it can lead to memory issues which can then cause upset, more stress, and more seizures. And, too much stress isn’t any good for anyone - epilepsy or not. We need to be able to manage our stress and anxiety levels, well!
Well, this week we chat with Neil Shah who’s the Chief Destressing Officer at the Stress Management Society to chat all about it!
Please don't forget to like, comment and subscribe to our channel so that we can improve awareness and understanding of the epilepsies around the world.
Now, onto our star of the week, the boss of the Stress Management Society, Neil Shah.
01:10 Neil Shah
Thank you, Torie, firstly thank you so much for having me, it's a real pleasure to be here. I'm Neil Shah, I'm the Chief Destressing Officer at an international non-profit organisation called the Stress Management Society and I'm also the Chief Insights Officer at a research consultancy organisation called International Wellbeing Insights. I've been in this field now for 21 years and we have a vision of creating a happier, healthier, more resilient world. We've been doing this since 2003. Sadly, it does feel like we're further away from that goal today than we were when we came into existence and that's not through lack of effort; more…the world seems to be a more challenging and stressful place today than ever before.
01:42 Torie Robinson
Do you have any sort of statistics regarding stress and anxiety and how it affects people?
01:47 Neil Shah
The statistics are one thing. I think, really, what I encourage everybody listening today to ask themselves “Have you ever experienced stress or poor mental health? Do you know someone who has?”. And inevitably everybody's going to say “Yes”. 1 in 4 people in the UK in any given year will experience poor mental health. Suicide is the main cause of death for a man under the age of 45 (in western society) [and it’s] - rapidly becoming the same for 15-29 year olds. You know, when we've arrived at a point where life -theoretically - is easier for us as humans than ever before, you can…at least you can literally have things delivered to your doorstep within a day or a few hours when you've got hospitals and pharmacies and supermarkets and everything available on tap. In fact, you could quite happily live out your whole entire existence without leaving your house and have everything delivered to you with access to communications and the rest of the world and work through the internet and a screen. Yet we are the most miserable humans in history! And this is a strange, weird set of affairs that.. yes, we have “more”, but our experience and our quality of life doesn't seem to have improved to the point when people are generally happier. What are the markers of that? Well, you know, I live in London. London was recently voted as the loneliest city on the planet. That's shocking! That's upsetting and disturbing given that there are nine million of us!
03:18 Torie Robinson
Right.
03:18 Neil Shah
You are never alone (physically alone), because there's always people around. From wherever you're sat and wherever I'm sat, you're just within a few hundred 100 square meters…there's probably hundreds if not thousands of people. But being alone and being lonely are two completely different things. And lonely is a sense of disconnection and isolation. Which given the fact there are more humans on the planet, many of us live in cities where we're surrounded by people, it's a strange set of affairs. You know, so much so in Britain, we actually have a government minister for loneliness. I kid you not, I did not make that up!
03:49 Torie Robinson
That just sounds nuts, right? And why do we need that, right? Lockdown, do you not think, was quite a good test for loneliness? ‘Cause some people felt it ever more but some people actually kind of, secretly(!), actually enjoyed lockdown and I think it brought some communities together. So, what do you think about that?
04:10 Neil Shah
Yeah, I think lockdown did have a serious long-term impact on society. The way we live, the way we work, the way we communicate. There are many people [for] that, you know, work, up until March 2020 was a destination, somewhere you go. Overnight for many of us, it became an activity; something you do rather than somewhere you go. And it kind of never really went back. You know, most people are either working remotely or hybrid. We're not all back in a physical workplace every single day (unless you do something that are quite requires you to be physically present). And through that, we've lost social interaction, connection. You know, there are many industries that were - particularly in the entertainment industry - you know, festivals, I have many friends that organise festivals and are musicians and people don't go to festivals in the way that they used to pre-2020. There are a lot of people I know that have organised festivals - had to shut them down because they just struggled to get people to turn up. Restaurants, cinemas, theatres; have not had the level of footfall they had pretty much 2020. So, there's a weird thing that's happened is, is from a social interaction perspective, it's really suffered, and we've got to bear in mind, one of the key aspects to maintaining positive mental health is your support network, is social interactions; going out and having fun interacting with other human beings. You can't simply replace that with a Zoom call. And, you know, there would have been a point a few years ago where if we were doing a podcast, we would have probably been sat in a studio together. It's great. It makes it easier for us to be able to do this because we can fit it into our schedules but it's not quite the same.
05:46 Torie Robinson
But it's not the same.
05:47 Neil Shah
It's not the same. The time we would have had chatting over a cup of tea and a biscuit before we started, the conversation we would have had afterwards… is kind of missed and that's happening in pretty much every social setting or every kind of business setting. It's a series of technical functional operational discussions and I think this is really where we need to consider the, the reason that life has got more stressful is number 1: there is more information available to us ever before…
06:14 Torie Robinson
Yeah, that's a huge thing.
06:16 Neil Shah
…through social media, through mainstream media, through our phones, you know, through so many different outlets. Our day starts the moment we wake up.
06:25 Torie Robinson
Mmm your phone's there, right?
06:27 Neil Shah
It's the first thing we look at. There was a point you'd kind of get up, you'd brush your teeth, you'd have a cup of coffee, you'd talk to your family, you'd get in some mode of transportation, then go to work where your day actually started. So, we are the “always on” culture. We never switch off. And actually, most of the things that we're switched on to: are they serving us in terms of uplifting us, in terms of generating positive thoughts, or is this information that is likely to bring us down? I remember a time that the news channel used to be… the last story of the news channel used to be a good news story, and it'll be, and finally…
Torie Robinson (06:47.286)
When it comes to people affected by the epilepsies, this stress is largely even higher. Lots of people with epilepsy and their whole families can be stuck at home because either their seizures are uncontrolled, and they're scared of leaving the house or they're just scared of leaving the house anyway because what if something happens? And it's really hard I think when people don't have the emotional support and friendship that you were talking about and often families just are not there. That's another social thing but they just are not there. It's really hard to build up your self -confidence again and self-worth and purpose. Only about 30% of people in the UK anyway with epilepsy are employed, even though much more of them can be employed because of this stigma. And that adds to the stress and anxiety, which can then contribute to seizures. And of course, the depression, you're much more likely to experience, you know, even degrees of psychosis and all these different things when you have an epilepsy (statistically). And so, what do you think about that when… because largely I think people, for instance, with an epilepsy or other sorts of conditions or diseases; we don't necessarily fall under that group of “regular people” (if there is such a thing) and are even more isolated, lonely and anxious a lot of the time. Lots of us aren't, but a lot of us are. What do you think about that?
08:20 Neil Shah
Yes, I can understand the reasons why people might feel scared or uncomfortable leaving the house. And, you know, there may be a short-term sort of relief of the anxiety associated with having to show up in daily life by, you know, self-selecting, by self-discriminating, sadly. You know, we've internalised the public stigma and it's become a self-stigma. And that for me is a challenge because we need to tackle the stigma full stop. You know, self kind-of isolating to avoid having to face some of those difficulties. I'm not sure that's a kind of a good long-term solution. I think we need to get better in society at understanding how we can engage and interact with people from a variety of different backgrounds. ‘Cause, just talking about stress and mental health, which is my own expertise, there is guilt, shame and stigma associated with that. And whether it's epilepsy or physical disability, body shame, images, mobility issues, whatever it is, there's a lot of people that will withdraw or disengage from society because they don't feel comfortable showing up. Now, yes, again, it provides short-term relief, but actually, it's potentially gonna compound the issue. It's gonna make it worse because then, you know, as we are withdrawing and disengaging, all the benefits that are attained from being able to get out, to be engaged, to be physically active, to leave the house, to get fresh air, to socialise, are lost. So, it's kind of, I get that, you know, there are periods where short term it may be advantageous to disengage whilst you build yourself up to be able to re-engage. It's not a permanent solution.
10:06 Torie Robinson
I agree. And you know what, I'm thinking about, actually, clinicians as well. So, whether it be neurologists, epileptologists, psychiatrists, whatever, they were under so much stress. So, like, there's a really high rate of suicide amongst clinicians, for instance. And I don't… there's this stigma in medicine, like about stress, anxiety, depression, all types of mental health issues. How do you think we can get around that? Is it through being more open about it? What do you think?
10:34 Neil Shah
It's a really strange thing that as much as we've made so many advancements in society and, you know, we seem to be more comfortable talking a whole variety of different things, when it comes to stress and mental health, I think we still got a lot of work to do. And it's really interesting to think that, you know, and you're absolutely right, clinicians, medical professionals are very prone to experiencing poor mental health and sadly in some cases suicidality. I think it's vets that actually have one of the highest suicide rates. And you think that actually people in kind-of the caring industries, the healthcare industries would be better equipped or have the support mechanisms in place. So, this is one of those situations that yes, we have started to get better at talking…talking about it but we've got a lot of work to do.
How do we change things? Stop waiting for someone else to fix it. This is every single one of us has a responsibility. We are not going to have groups or organisations or people in positions of authority that are going to create a positive landscape for us when it comes to mental and emotional health. So don't wait for someone to do it for you or to you. It's every single one of us has an opportunity to create the society we want to be a part of. And this is really where, as I said, our actions are crucial. Even simple things like, you know, how do we start any conversation? When I make statements like that, people think “But I'm just little old me, what could I possibly do?”. Well, how many people do you interact with on a daily basis? Even if that's someone that you're buying your bread from in the supermarket, the taxi driver, the person that's driving the bus that you get on, whatever. Even the episodic interactions, the person… the single serving interaction, so to speak. You know, if we are kind of a warm, caring person, you might even with a random stranger, say “Hey, how are you?”. Most pointless question, not just in the English language, in any language. Why?
12:52 Torie Robinson
It's a greeting, it's not a real question.
12:54 Neil Shah
Absolutely. And this is really where, what if we actually started making better inquiries about the welfare and wellbeing of the people around us? So rather than just saying “How are you?” - we were involved with a campaign a few years ago called “#Ask Twice”. Ask the same question again! “How are you, Torie? But how are you really?!”.
13:16 Torie Robinson
Yes, yes.
13:17 Neil Shah
And all of a sudden, the person's like “Whoah, you actually want to know how I am?!”. Nobody actually has… and it might be that you're talking to someone that hasn't had someone that's made meaningful inquiries of them. They just have pointless interactions, tick box kind of
13:31 Torie Robinson
Robotic almost.
13:32 Neil Shah
Yeah, absolutely. We're not really inquiring about each other's welfare and wellbeing. That's where it starts ‘cause you're giving someone space to open up and say “You know what, actually I'm struggling. I'm not slept particularly well. There's a lot going on in the world. I work in mental health. It's pretty challenging right now. I really appreciate you asking. It's also now giving me an opportunity to open up, to verbalise and articulate how I'm feeling.” That's where it starts. I can sit here and give you a manifesto and spend the next hour giving you a thousand different things that we could do individually and collectively.
14:06 Torie Robinson
I think we also need to be thinking about prevention rather than treatment and cure - where possible. Of course, you know, we have complex brains and there are always going to be illnesses and genetics can come into it, of course, but sometimes… I think a lot of the time, and we were talking about society, you know, a lot of these things can be prevented if people feel that they can talk about something. If they feel they're not going to be discriminated against, if they know that people aren't going to think that they're weak. If, you know, and that it wipes out who they are as a person overall. You know, I hear stories about people's parents, even today, they go “You can't be ill, get on with it.”, you know, or their employer, or even their clinicians and stuff, you know “You look fine, what's the problem?”, you know, statistically you look like this, you are doing good eye contact, you are, you know, you appear clean and stuff and you're therefore not at the bottom of the pit. Well, how do you know that? You know, and it's the same for many people with other conditions and other diseases. So, you know, whether the person, it's a really common thing in epilepsy, you look fine, unless you're seizing, you know, or you have some other type of illness that is obvious and visible. It's very difficult, I think, for people to get their head around. But would you not agree that we have to kind of admit we don't know everything? And just because we don't understand something or see it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And sometimes you just have to listen and just go, okay, maybe I'll read up on that. And I don't understand that, but that's fine, you know?
15:35 Neil Shah
Yeah, you know, going back to the “prevention is better than cure”. You know, we can't prevent stress. We live in a world where things happen, right? It could be kind of an external experience. It could be the loss of a loved one, change of circumstance, moving house, wars, you know, like some kind of geopolitical experience. There's a whole range of things that can happen that are likely to create a stress response. That's normal. It's natural. Our job is firstly to recognise when we are mentally, emotionally compromised and be able to take some kind of appropriate action to prevent it becoming worse. Because stress, you know, left unchecked for extended periods of time, eventually starts to impact your mental health. Your mental health is compromised for long enough, it can potentially lead to mental illness. But here's the thing, stress left unchecked can also have a serious impact on your physical health.
16:32 Torie Robinson
People don't realise that generally, do they? But, you know, it's all connected, like seriously, we're in the same body, all these different organs, what's going on? Why don't people get it?
16:39 Neil Shah (19:18.603)
You know, once your physical health has been compromised for long enough, that will also potentially lead to physical illness. There's many studies now that are connecting things like heart disease, cancer, diabetes, stroke, to stress, both directly and indirectly. Directly, it changes the way your body functions. Indirectly, it changes the way you live your life. You're less likely to exercise, eat well, socialise…
17:00 Torie Robinson
Sleep well…
17:00 Neil Shah
…all the things that are going to give you positive wellbeing. So, it's really, our job is to recognise the early signs and to be able to take appropriate action to ensure it doesn't become a more serious issue. Well, we don't end up with someone with poor mental health or poor physical health or sadly, people that potentially might lose their lives because they end up with a serious illness that creates a fatality or sadly, where someone makes the decision, they don't want to be here anymore and takes action against that. For me, that's scary and shocking to reflect on the fact that in 2024, it's still one of the biggest killers for young people on the planet.
17:41 Torie Robinson
Yep.
17:41 Neil Shah
With all the advancements we've made, how is it that we are failing so many young people?
17:47 Torie Robinson
And these are my thoughts: media has a lot to do with it, I think. We see these “perfect” people online, but who aren't [perfect], obviously, but people just think “God, look at their lives, I should be achieving that…”. There are expectations from individuals and families: “You should be at this point in your life!”, you know, there are even comparisons to people of different cultures and countries “Why aren't we as a culture achieving this?!” (the way something else is being portrayed on the telly). And there's a big stress thing about, you know, climate change and so many things. And I spoke to a therapist the other day and she said “Do you know what I do? I turn off the news.”. You know, she said “It's a sacrifice and I don't know everything that's going on, but if I didn't...if I watched the news all the time, I will be so stressed out.!”. What do you think about that?
18:34 Neil Shah
I don't think it's a sacrifice. I think it's a really wonderful thing. I've not watched the news in 20 years. Why? Does it help my life? Does it help me to do what I need to do to make the world a better place? Is it equipping me to do what's necessary to leave the world better than I found it? Now, if there are things I need to know about that information will find its way to me. Why? Well, you know, we're all connected to groups, social media, et cetera. T the things that you need to know about in some way, shape or form, that information will find itself to you.
19:05 Torie Robinson
Thank you to Neil for sharing with us how important it is to minimise our stress levels - and to help other people do the same. Stress and anxiety can be disabling in more ways than one, and maybe we can help each other chill and smile more easily than we thought.
If you haven’t already, don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe to the channel, share the episode with your friends/colleagues, and see you next week, here, on Epilepsy Sparks Insights!
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LinkedIn: wellbeingvisionary
X/Twitter: neilkarma
The Stress Management Society: our-team
International Wellbeing Insights: neil-shah-chief-de-stressing-officer-and-ceo